Homosexuality and the Bible, The Cross the Line Challenge

Here’s some food for thought re: homosexuality and the Bible. I recently started reading all the way through the Bible with a group of friends. We are following the 90 Days program. The entire Bible. In 90 days. It’s intense. And I certainly won’t be a Bible scholar at the end of it. I’ll just be a Christian who is reading through the Bible- every word- in an effort to get closer to God and have a better understanding of my faith. I am not a Bible scholar. I’m just passionate about Jesus. 

Today, I’m reading Leviticus. And I got to that part. That part that everyone always quotes. 

 “Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.” – Leviticus 18:22
And at first I was like whoa. I couldn’t really see another interpretation. The rest of the things in that chapter- Unlawful Sexual Relations- are things that are pretty universally (in our culture, anyway) agreed upon to be no-no’s. Incest. Besteality. Adultery. So while I had no intention of ditching my homosexual friends or voting against civil rights, I did- for a moment- think OK. The Bible says no. I see it. 
And then I was like wait. 
He wasn’t talking to us here. He was talking specifically to the Israelites of that time. These rules were for them, not for us. 

He also told them the following:
“Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.”
  
This is what I’m wearing as I read this. Whoops. 

“Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.”  

A pic of my hubby, who als makes unholy choices. 

“Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves.”  

I hope henna doesn’t count!

“Observe my Sabbaths and have reverence for my sanctuary.”

Last Sunday we drove from Ohio to Connecticut. So. 

And my absolute favorite one, especially for those of you who want to take these orders and make them a rule book about how we should live today. 

“When foreigners reside among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigners residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt.”
Ouch. How’s that fight to close the borders treating you?

I know I’m not pointing out anything that is new. But the difference is I’m reading it for myself. So here’s the thing. I will concede once more that I am not a Bible scholar. And if you ARE a Bible scholar and would like to tell me why you think Leviticus 18:22 still applies to today, but not the rest of the rules listed within the same context, please feel free to tell me in the comments. But based on what I’m reading, you might want to remove this verse from your list of proof that homosexuality is a sin.  

*Also. The intention of this post is to discuss homosexuality in the Bible. However. Even if we were to concede that the Bible says it is wrong, that does not have anything to do with the civil rights discussion so many people are having. We don’t make laws based on ANY religion in this country, remember?

21 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. VaSanganyado
    Jul 11, 2015 @ 19:00:41

    When you get to Romans and the gospels you will find the answer. As of what is sin, James says anything that is not of faith is sin.

    Is homosexuality a demonstration of faith? Does it declare the glory of God in creating marriage? Why did God create marriage? What is the role of sex in marriage as ordained by God? Does homosexuality fulfill that?

    As you read Romans 1, it becomes a bit serious. After saying I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God unto righteousness, from glory to glory, Paul talks about homosexuality. He dives into the causes and the fate of those who practice it and also those who support it.

    The problem with any kind of sexual sin, adultery, pornography, homosexuality is it is a sin against one’s own body. If it was just against God, then we know God is forgiving, but will your body forgive you? Your body doesn’t have the abundant love of God, it is still awaiting sanctification. God has abounding love, he can afford to forgive even the worst of our sins. I do not trust my body enough to forgive me of any sexual sin.

    Reply

    • Thoroughly Modern Mommy
      Jul 13, 2015 @ 10:47:10

      Thanks for your comment- I am actually looking for information specifically regarding Leviticus. Jen has provided some above which I appreciate. I’m interested in what Romana has to say. That’s just not where I am in my reading.

      Reply

      • VaSanganyado
        Jul 13, 2015 @ 10:59:46

        I am sorry about that. I should have stuck to the Leviticus commentary, though it’s difficult considering these things were written as shadows and the veil is only lifted in Christ. This implies, we cannot have an understanding of any part of the Old Testament apart from the realities in Christ. Without the image of the cross, any reading of the OT can lead to licentiousness or legalism. I hope you will find the answers in Leviticus m

      • Thoroughly Modern Mommy
        Jul 13, 2015 @ 11:09:22

        I definitely understand that. And of course we have to read the Bible as a whole. The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. So when it comes to a deep understanding of a section of the Bible, it absolutely needs to be put into relationship with other sections. So when I get to Romans, I’ll be able to look back and make some connections. I just was looking in this case at Leviticus on its own 🙂

  2. Rick Grubb
    Jul 11, 2015 @ 21:20:48

    TMM – I don’t know if I am your “token” atheist acquaintance, or one of many. I am going to speak truthfully about my feelings on this matter very transparently. Frankly, I don’t care what people think. I don’t care if you are anti-gay…you don’t have to get “gay” married, or have “gay” sex, or even hold “gay” ceremonies in your church. And no law will keep you from doing that. I don’t care if you are anti-gay, or think a man sacrificed himself for your sin, knowing he would rise again (does that really make it a sacrifice?) in the view of his dad, which is also him OR if you are a Mormon and believe you’ll get your own planet when you die, OR a Scientologist and thank Lord Xenu every day you wake up, OR a Muslim that is awaiting his virgins in Heavan. There is no gradation of silliness in these things for me. But, believe what you want.
    Where I get riled up, NAY where EVERYONE should get riled up is when one person or group attempts to force that belief on others…through legislation, or what have you. Imagine if Obama really were a Muslim and he insisted that every woman wear a Hijab. How would the Christian community respond? It is the same way I, as an atheist, respond to the Fundamentalist Right and their reactions to this ruling – or there desire to STILL refuse the now CONSTITUTIONAL right of millions – how very un-American.
    I have yet to hear of a single cogent argument against gay marriage that does not invoke a religious text (primarily the Bible), And, guess what? I don’t believe your book, so I don’t have to abide by it and no one can make me anymore than the Muslims should make a Christian believe THEIR version of their Abrahamic book.
    Additionally, the hypocrisy on the right is overwhelming…you cite Leviticus well. The Bibee makes no claim on the severity of these sins..they are all equal: Shellfish, clotth of different fabrics, homosexuality…they are ALL equal. Where are the screams for closing Red Lobsters? I would also bet, by this Biblical Law, that almost ALL Christians are sinners on PAR with Homosexuals.
    Finally, all these County Clerks refusing to issue marriage certificates due to closely hheld religious beliefs. I cite Matthew 5:31-32 “31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.” How many county clerks have turned away adulters, or people marrying for the second/third time due to closely held religious beliefs? I bet exactly ZERO.

    Reply

    • B.T. Economy
      Jul 12, 2015 @ 10:52:10

      “But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.”

      First I’ll say I am a Christian but this verse truly gave me pause back in the day when I first read the entire Bible. Back when I was in middle school I think. It really made me upset and made absolutely no sense to me and I started to look at the Bible more as a group of books, written by real live men, a reflection on individual personalities, cultures, histories and space in time (as is religion itself). Opinion editorials when you think about it. And with all of the editing passed down and lost in translation by men with ulterior motives. Anyhow, this verse really rubbed me the wrong way. Still does. This verse AND the book of Leviticus. OH and how Lot offered his virgin daughters to the sex crazed crowd that came for his Angel guests… Yeah, yeah they say it’s supposed to be a story that edifies, but… That one is really messed up.

      So I’m more of a red letter Christian. That’s the part that makes more sense to me. 😉 Follow Christ’s “example.” The rest I take with a grain of salt. 😉

      Reply

      • Thoroughly Modern Mommy
        Jul 12, 2015 @ 10:56:55

        BTE- I had forgotten about the homosexuality/ divorce comparison. It’s interesting, divorce is so common and accepted now that I literally forgot the connection. Lots to think about there…

    • Thoroughly Modern Mommy
      Jul 13, 2015 @ 10:55:09

      Hey Rick 🙂 While you are not my only atheist friend, you are my most out-spoken one. I actually had you in my when I wrote the end of the post. (After the *) As I said there, you are absolutely right. There is no way we can make laws based on any religion. I was talking to my husband about it last night, and it seems to be in 3 layers for me at the moment.
      1. Should same-sex marriage be legal? (Answer: yes. I don’t see any other possible answer.)
      2. Does the Bible say homosexuality is a sin? (Answer: TBD. But it’s something I want to study and learn on my own while getting other people’s opinions.)
      3. If the Bible DOES say homosexuality is a sin, will this change how I view it? (Answer: no. First of all, I am not the judge of the situation. But second, I cannot wrap my brain around it being sinful. I just can’t.)
      4. Given 1-3, what are my next actions? (Answer: TBD. Maybe nothing. Maybe I become a Christian advocate for LGTB rights.) But no matter what the next step is, it needs to be based on a combination of education and faith. And for that to happen, I need to get as close to understanding the Biblical truth as I can.

      Reply

  3. jen
    Jul 11, 2015 @ 21:42:49

    Hi Mindy – so I found this, I thought it was a representation of the Christian perspective. Like you stated, just putting it out there as it discusses old law the Israelites were under verses Mosaic Law aspects that we readers of the Bible aren’t as likely to pick up on as scholars who have spent in real study across old languages and amplified examination.

    Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, and a “man who lies with a man”
    by Matt Slick

    Lev. 18:22
    ‘You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.” (NASB)
    “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.” (ESV, NKJV)
    Clearly, the Old Testament condemns homosexuality. What else does it mean when it says “you shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female”? The term “lie with” here refers to sexual intercourse in the phrase “lie with a male as one lies with a female.” It is an abomination. The word here is תֹּועֵבָה towʿebah, toʿebah.

    117 occurrences; AV translates as “abomination” 113 times, “abominable thing” twice, and “abominable” twice. 1 a disgusting thing, abomination, abominable. 1a in ritual sense (of unclean food, idols, mixed marriages). 1b in ethical sense (of wickedness etc. ).1

    Lev. 20:13
    “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.” (NASB)
    “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” (ESV)
    The word “detestable” is the same Hebrew word found in Lev. 18:22, “abomination.”

    There can be no doubt that the Old Testament condemns homosexuality as a detestable act worthy of death and that God has deemed it to be an “abomination” to him. Of course, the Old Testament Law is no longer in effect in this area because the Messiah has come, and we are not under a theocratic governmental system. Therefore, we are not to execute homosexuals. We are to pray for them and their repentance, so they might find salvation in Christ.

    We are not under the Old Testament Law
    God created Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. This signifies that God ordained order of male and female–not male and male or female and female. This is important because it was before the Mosaic Law was given. The Mosaic Law properly reflects the created order of God that excluded homosexuality. Therefore, the argument that homosexuality is not for Christians because it was intended for Israel under the Old Testament law does not apply.

    Also, this argument fails to take into consideration the difference between civil, ceremonial, and moral divisions of The Law. In addition, some laws were for Israel only, while others were for everyone. First, let’s look at Leviticus since it is the book under examination.

    Civil–Expired with the demise of the Jewish civil government
    Justice practices (Lev. 24:17-23)
    Law of property redemption (Lev. 25)
    Be just with the poor (Lev. 19:15)
    Do not hate in your heart (Lev. 19:17)
    Retain just scales in commerce (Lev. 19:35f)
    Robbery, extortion, false witness, and restitution (Lev. 6:1-7)
    Ceremonial–Expired with the fulfillment of priestly work of Christ (Matt. 3:15)
    Various sacrificial offerings for sin (Lev. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6).
    Priestly duties (Lev. 7:1-37)
    Laws on animals for food (Lev. 11:1-47)
    Cleaning house of leper (Lev. 14:33-57)
    Law of Atonement (Lev. 16:1-28;17:1-16)
    Regulations for Priests (Lev. 21,22)
    Festivals (Lev. 23:1-25)
    Moral–No Expiration because it is based on God’s character. “You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy,” (Lev. 19:2)
    Do not steal or lie (Lev. 19:12)
    Do not oppress your neighbor (Lev. 19:13)
    No idolatry (Lev. 26:1-13)
    Don’t sacrifice children to Molech (Lev. 20:1-5)
    Don’t commit adultery, incest, bestiality, homosexuality, etc. (Lev. 20:9-21)
    You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Lev. 19:18)
    The moral law of God is still in effect, and homosexuality is condemned by the moral law. So, the argument that we are not under the law fails to recognize the divisions of the law: civil, ceremonial, and moral.

    Some laws were for Israel only, while others were for everyone
    There were abominations that applied only to the Jews, such as eating shellfish, rabbit, and pork, things that were typologically representative of purity before the Lord. God says “Speak to the sons of Israel saying . . . ” God then lists out the creatures which they may eat and not eat and mentions the camel, rock badger, rabbit, pig, etc., . . . God specifically addresses the dietary laws “to the sons of Israel” (Lev. 11:2) and people he has chosen out of all the nations on the earth (Deut. 14:2)–not the rest of the nations.

    However, there are abominations that did not apply only to Israel–but everyone.

    “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. 23 Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion. 24 Do not defile yourselves by any of these things; for by all these the nations which I am casting out before you have become defiled.”
    The land became defiled due to the abominations of homosexuality and bestiality, practices of those who lived in the land before the Jews; so it is not just an issue for the Jews under the Law (Lev. 18:22-29). God considered their homosexuality to be an abomination for everyone. So, the argument that we Christians are not under the Law doesn’t work because the non-Jews of ancient times were not under Jewish law, and their homosexuality was called an abomination.

    Should we also dismiss avoiding lying, theft, and adultery?
    If, as some argue, we are not under the Law and and can therefore dismiss Leviticus–along with its clear condemnation of homosexuality–then shouldn’t we also dismiss Levitical teachings that warn against lying (Lev. 19:11), theft (Lev. 19:13), bearing false witness (19:16), hating your fellow man (Lev. 19:17), exacting vengeance (Lev. 19:18), avoiding unjust balances (Lev. 19:36), sacrificing children (Lev. 20:1-5), committing adultery (Lev. 20:10), committing incest (20:11-14), and the practice of bestiality (Lev. 20:15-16)? Of course not. If we ignore one part of the moral law, how can we say we must obey the rest of it?

    Furthermore, Leviticus is quoted in the New Testament.

    Leviticus New Testament
    Lev. 19:2, “Speak to all the congregation of the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy.”

    1 Pet. 1:16, “because it is written, ‘You shall be holy, for I am holy.’”

    Lev. 19:18, “‘You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord.”

    Matt. 22:39, “The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”

    Lev. 26:12, “I will also walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people.”

    2 Cor. 6:16, “Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, ‘I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.’”Are we also to dismiss Leviticus along with the idea of being holy, of loving our neighbor, and that God will walk among us in the person of Jesus? Of course not. To do so by saying we are not under law displays deep theological ignorance. There are certainly aspects of Leviticus which are no longer applicable to us (civil and ceremonial), but there are others that still are–those things that apply to all nations and also that are reiterated in the New Testament–the prohibition of homosexuality being one of them.

    Reply

    • Thoroughly Modern Mommy
      Jul 12, 2015 @ 10:00:34

      Hi jen- Thank you so much for such a detailed response. This is exactly was I was asking for in reference to Leviticus. As I stated a few times, I am not a Bible scholar. This argument makes sense to me. I want to take a further look, and I’m really asking- how do we know which laws were for the Israelites and which are moral laws that still apply? Your explanation totally makes sense to me, but theologically, what is the distinction?

      Reply

      • jen
        Jul 12, 2015 @ 11:24:36

        I get it – I’m certainly not a scholar…just trying to get a biblical grasp on it all myself. 😊 This is a helpful description of the law – and when / how they are applicable/relevant.

        What are the main divisions of the Old Testament Law?
        by Matt Slick

        There are three main divisions within the Old Testament law. Following is a categorization. Please note that occasionally the civil and moral laws overlap.

        The main differences between the civil, ceremonial, and moral aspects of the Law of Moses as revealed in the Pentateuch (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) are in their purposes. The civil law deals mainly with relationships between individuals, the settling of disputes, and the description of proper behavior. The ceremonial law deals with the priesthood initiation and the priestly procedures as they related to the various sacrifices through which the people of the Old Testament were cleansed of there sins. The moral law is based on the character of God and extends from the Old into the New Testament. Therefore, as it was wrong to lie in the Old Testament, it is still wrong to lie in the New Testament.

        Civil–Deals with disputes between individuals. Expired with the demise of the Jewish civil government.
        Be just with the poor, (Lev. 19:15)
        Cattle, of neighbor (Deut. 22:1-4)
        Children, rebellious (Deut. 21:18-21)
        Debt (Lev. 23:34-43; Deut. 31:10)
        Divorce (Deut. 22:19)
        Dress, attire (Deut. 22:5)
        Do not hate in your heart (Lev. 19:17)
        Inheritance (Num. 18:26; 26:53-56; 36:8-12)
        Justice practices (Lev. 24:17-23)
        Kidnapping (Exodus 21:16)
        Landmarks (Deuteronomy 19:14)
        Property redemption (Lev. 25)
        Murder and killing (Deut. 21:1-4)
        Retain just scales in commerce (Lev. 19:35f)
        Robbery, extortion, false witness, and restitution (Lev. 6:1-7)
        Sabbath breaking punishment (Num. 15:32-36)
        Theft (Deut. 5:19; Lev. 19:11)
        Warfare (Deut. 20:1-20)
        Ceremonial–Expired with the fulfillment of priestly work of Christ (Matt. 3:15).
        Cleaning house of leper (Lev. 14:33-57; Num. 5:2)
        Festivals (Lev. 23:1-25; Nu. 29:39)
        Laws on animals for food (Lev. 11:1-47)
        Law of Atonement (Lev. 16:1-28;17:1-16)
        Offerings (Num. 29:39)
        Priest, consecration of (Ex. 29:1-46)
        Priestly duties (Lev. 7:1-37)
        Regulations for Priests (Lev. 21,22)
        Various sacrificial offerings for sin (Lev. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
        Moral–No Expiration because it is based on God’s character. “You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy,” (Lev. 19:2).
        Idolatry (Lev. 26:1-13)
        Love God (Deut. 6:4)
        Love your neighbor as yourself (Lev. 19:18)
        Oppress your neighbor (Lev. 19:13)
        Stealing or lying (Lev. 19:11)
        Sacrifice children to Molech forbidden (Lev. 20:1-5)
        Sexual sins: adultery, incest, bestiality, homosexuality, etc. (Lev. 18:20; 20:9-21; Num. 5:12-15)

      • Thoroughly Modern Mommy
        Jul 13, 2015 @ 10:56:57

        Thanks! There is a lot of info here, so I want to check it out. But I also will take a look at Matt Slick and his background, just so I know where he’s coming from.

  4. Jesska
    Jul 12, 2015 @ 02:18:01

    🙂 Amen

    But while we’re at it, don’t forget to cross things like lasagne and beef stroganoff and cheese burgers off your menus – milk [products] and beef in the same meal is also a big no go..

    Reply

  5. B.T. Economy
    Jul 12, 2015 @ 11:19:57

    Excellent post, Mindy! I’ll say it again, I love your style. I posted about this a while back but you present it with such eloquence. 😉

    I believe that what it all comes down to is that whatever faith or non-faith we settle on as an individual is merely a reflection of personality and life experience, from the calming ritual of Buddhism or the Catholic Church to the need for intense soul saving Gospel shouting revivals–a need to believe that there’s a reason for our troubles and that sins are forgiven-blessed salvation. Often life experience proves none of it makes sense and mere logic and basic truth guide the soul. Or, sadly, one’s religion and interpretations are a reflection of the individual’s internal prejudices and feelings of superiority and a need to belong to a group that supports these views. (Sociology 101 😉 )

    But often what we settle on is simply a matter of finding comfort in family tradition and the family church. Or a complete rejection of family tradition and the family church because of a negative childhood experience. Any which way, I believe religion and lifestyle are personal matters, our own personal path, are definitely none of my business, and that no one should force that part of themselves onto any one else.

    I replied to someone above that I’m more of a red letter Christian, so I won’t repeat myself about that here. Again, good job, look forward to reading more. 😉

    PS I also posted about how Pat Robertson actually said ‘we don’t follow the Old Testament anymore’ so that’s very good news. 😉

    Reply

  6. Clare Flourish
    Jul 12, 2015 @ 17:51:04

    Don’t listen to Matt Slick, or Jen quoting him.

    They quote Leviticus 20 as an argument against me. What? They want to kill me? They seriously think “Stone them to Death” is a sentence which applies to us now? And if they don’t want to kill us, how do they distinguish the bit which says “Stone them to Death”???

    You know it’s nuts. Maybe you know some gay couples, you certainly have known some out gay people. Imagine for a moment stoning us to death. Then realise how silly it all is. The SCOTUS majority was Right. Praise God!

    Reply

    • jen
      Jul 12, 2015 @ 20:48:01

      Mindy asked for information on the Leviticus verse. That’s all I wanted to give. The issue goes deeper than the SCOTUS ruling. Whether you are Christian or not it influences the eternal destinies of so many, many generations.

      Reply

      • Clare Flourish
        Jul 13, 2015 @ 00:10:01

        Oh, “information”? That was what it was? Really?

        You’ve lost, jen, and God is pleased. There is information here. “The Eternal Destinies”- “You’re all going to Hell”, you cry, perhaps with Tertullian’s level of delight. You’re delusional. Turn to Christ!

      • Thoroughly Modern Mommy
        Jul 13, 2015 @ 10:45:37

        Hi Clare- thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I wanted to reply sooner but didn’t have time to write what I wanted to say. I just want to make sure you know that I am not posting this or having this discussion in order to figure out my opinions on homosexuality. Those opinions are set, and I do not see them changing. I cannot imagine looking at my close college friend and his husband and saying “no, you should not be able to be married and raise your two beautiful children together.” I cannot conceive of telling my close friends from church “I know you love each other, but you shouldn’t be together.” Or any of the other gay people in my life. Not only could I not SAY it, I couldn’t THINK it. I want to have an open mind and be educated. I want to get as close as I can to understanding the intentions of the author of Leviticus. But it is not with intent to condemn. Certainly not outwardly, but not internally, either.

        One of the things that is exciting me about this blog series is that people have been able to express differing opinions with kindness. In Jen’s defense, she actually did provide me with what I was looking for- why do people pay attention to some parts of Leviticus, and not all? But I know how painful it is to read parts of the Bible and think “that cannot possibly be what God has in mind for me.” As a woman who has never been able to conceive, I looked to the Bible to find comfort, and found none. All I found were stories of women who couldn’t conceive but eventually did, and infertility discussed as punishment. And it’s so, so hurtful. Even in the context of it being the old covenant. So I truly understand how painful it can be. And personally, I will continue to advocate for civil rights for my LGTB friends. And I will continue to feel in my heart that they (and you) have as much right to sharing their lives with someone as I do.

        I hope that clears it up a bit. And again, thank you for commenting.

      • Clare Flourish
        Jul 13, 2015 @ 11:34:42

        You see, I think certain people pay such attention to “Stone them to death” because of homophobia. They do not wish to engage their moral sense, or indeed their sense of the ludicrous, and so keep banging on about the clobber verses and asserting against all the evidence that this means they have “respect for the Bible”.

        I saw a man argue that chapter 20 was stated to be for all time, for all people, rather than just for the Israelites like most of Leviticus; but that sort of “information” does not take us further. Does the person really see who a gay person is, or not?

        And my sympathy about infertility. It is a horrible thing which strikes at random. I suppose the analogy I would bring is the man born blind- “Who sinned, the man or his parents?” Jesus clearly says, neither. It is just a horrible thing happening at random. But you could find bits in Proverbs and the Psalms to argue the opposite.

  7. Karen Johns
    Nov 09, 2015 @ 18:36:28

    I was just reading all this for the first time and wondered, since it has been a few months, if you have come to a clearer understanding of Leviticus.
    I don’t have much to add, except for this: Many years ago, when my sister told me she was homosexual and I was grappling with what that meant, my very good pastor friend told me to remember that JESUS never said anything about homosexuality being a sin.
    And as I see my sister and her new wife, I cannot imagine how it could be wrong. “The greatest of these is love” rings a bell. I have never seen my sister be happier than she is right now, with a pure love that is very real. I cannot imagine God saying this love is wrong.
    Old Testament writings, and even some New Testament ones, are sometimes very difficult to understand. Have you come to any conclusions?

    Reply

    • Thoroughly Modern Mommy
      Nov 09, 2015 @ 19:16:33

      Hi Karen!

      I actually haven’t spent a ton of time on Leviticus in particular. But we did have an awesome sermon series a few weeks ago, and it really cleared some things up for me, in the sense that everything is unclear 😉

      It would be awesome if the Bible was a list of totally clear rules written directly to us at this time. But it’s just not. It’s complicated. And anyone who claims to understand it all is quite frankly foolish.

      Our pastor took some hot button topics. Then she argued really vehemently for one side of the argument using the Bible. “Correctly.” With full understanding of historical context. From it’s original language. Then she did the same… For the other side.

      My take away from the series was that the Bible is really important in our lives. However. Maybe it wasn’t intended to be a rule book.

      The bottom line for me in all of this, though, was that there is seriously nothing anyone could say that would make me condemn homosexuality out loud, or more importantly, think in my heart it was wrong, I just can’t wrap my brain around the idea that it is sinful. I was interested in people’s Biblical ideas around the topic. But after our recent series, I am less interested in Internet strangers’ thoughts, and more interested in reading the Bible myself and listening to what God has to tell me.

      Reply

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